Transportation questions.

Hey all, few quick questions about firearm transportation.

Say, i plan to go to a range after work, can i bring my restricted firearm with me (Of course locked in a case with trigger lock attached & in the trunk) then go to the range after work?

Or do i have to get home to pickup my gun after work then head over to the range?

Also, another case scenario, if i want to go to the range with my friends in one car,

is it ok to have my guns in the trunk (Locked in case) and go pick up my friend who brings his own guns then head to the range?

Some ppl told me that i must head over to the range straight back and forth only from home, without any detours.

No you cannot not. You must store them at home, and after work travel and pick them up. Your ATT does not cover your place of work.

Yes picking up a friend while heading to the range is fine. I stop for a bite to eat and a coffee. Before I head home from the range on Friday nights.

Thanks for clarifying! Much appreciated!

Just one more question, is hardshell ammo box a must when im heading to the range or can i just use any bag to carry ammo?

You don't need to transport ammo in one case vs. Another. You're not required to lock up ammo fitting transport either. You're required to keep non restricted empty and restricteds empty and locked up double.

I use the same backpack for ammo as I use as a carry on when I fly. Needless to say I check real carefulill for loose rounds before I go to the airport.

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Originally Posted by JB1103

Thanks for clarifying! Much appreciated!

Just one more questions, is hardshell ammo box a must when im heading to the range or can i just use any bag to carry ammo?

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Any bag. 98% of the guys I shoot with just throws it in whatever ( PB jar, to proper ammo dividers ) and into a range bag. As long as the gun being transported by law. It doesn't matter.

Check with the CFO concerning your transport question, you may be allowed to, some have.

Rcmp freind of mine I shot with said, " direct route, no stopping at canadian tire for ammo "

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Originally Posted by RobertMcC

No you cannot not. You must store them at home, and after work travel and pick them up. Your ATT does not cover your place of work.

Yes picking up a friend while heading to the range is fine. I stop for a bite to eat and a coffee. Before I head home from the range on Friday nights.

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I always thought this was silly. It will cover my hotel room when traveling to shoots in other cities but won't cover my vehicle in my own city.

That being said I am probably one of the lucky few whose ATT does allow me to take his restricted firearms to work but still :P

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Originally Posted by Greglc

Rcmp freind of mine I shot with said, " direct route, no stopping at canadian tire for ammo "

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One thing I've learned, never ask an RCMP Officer about Firearms Law ;)

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Originally Posted by Drache

I always thought this was silly. It will cover my hotel room when traveling to shoots in other cities but won't cover my vehicle in my own city.

That being said I am probably one of the lucky few whose ATT does allow me to take his restricted firearms to work but still :P

One thing I've learned, never ask an RCMP Officer about Firearms Law ;)

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Yeah but you work at a gun store, so your ATT covers that.

I don't ask officers firearm laws. I ask them would you charge someone if they did this?

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Originally Posted by RobertMcC

Yeah but you work at a gun store, so your ATT covers that.

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Well it's because we are a gunsmithing shop foremost that allows me to take my guns to work to give them a nice bath while listening to some Barry Manilow.

But it all shows you how much of a joke the ATT system is.

"No your ATT does not allow you to keep your guns locked up inside your vehicle while at work for 8 hours. We don't care if you have to travel an hour to work, then back an hour, then drive again past work for another hour to go to the range! Oh you're traveling to a different city for a couple days? Go right ahead then!"

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Originally Posted by Drache

Well it's because we are a gunsmithing shop foremost that allows me to take my guns to work to give them a nice bath while listening to some Barry Manilow.

But it all shows you how much of a joke the ATT system is.

"No your ATT does not allow you to keep your guns locked up inside your vehicle while at work for 8 hours. We don't care if you have to travel an hour to work, then back an hour, then drive again past work for another hour to go to the range! Oh you're traveling to a different city for a couple days? Go right ahead then!"

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Whole firearm system is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Drache

Well it's because we are a gunsmithing shop foremost that allows me to take my guns to work to give them a nice bath while listening to some Barry Manilow.

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So do you listen to Barry Manilow, or do you crank it for the benefit of your guns and leave the room?

"...never ask an RCMP Officer..." Or any other cop. What you'll get is their opinion only.
Any conditions to your ATT should be on it. However, there are automatic conditions attached already. This RCMP 2 Sept. 2015 bulletin says, "...is reasonably direct for the specific indicated purposes." No mention of no stops at Crappy Tire or anywhere else as being evil.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/n...-09-eng.htm#a2

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Originally Posted by Greglc

Rcmp freind of mine I shot with said, " direct route, no stopping at canadian tire for ammo "

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Your Rcmp friend really isn't a friend.

Reasonably Direct … stops
There is no case law of which I'm aware. That doesn't mean there isn't a judge describing it, just that I've never written it down.
To me, reasonably direct means that :
- the route itself is not significantly longer in time or distance than the shortest route, including traffic issues (if the highway is rush hour, driving further down back roads is now the reasonably direct route).
- anything necessary to the drive is ok. If you're running out of gas, you can fill up. If you need to pee, you can pull over someplace to use the rest room
- all drive through's are fine. You never get out of the car, and might not even turn the engine off, and if you could you'd be rolling just like at a traffic light. (thermos of coffee for the duck blind, hot hamburgers for everyone before the afternoon's hunting/hiking begins)
- for long trips, stopping at a motel to sleep for the night, is still transport and the most reasonably direct route.
- stopping at Canadian tire to fix a flat, or deal with a dashboard indicator (low radiator coolant, low tire pressure) is ok. Otherwise the car would fail which would cause a situation.


Going a different direction (to work) is a no no.

Anything that in a judge's mind, or a reasonable jury of your countrymen, that would change it from 'transported' to some other state, is out. For example the lady who drove home but didn't take the firearm out of the car fast enough for the judge's liking (a couple hours I think), although she felt the firearm was still in transport, he decided it was being unsafely stored. Going food shopping for an hour always seemed to me to fall into that category.

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Originally Posted by Greglc

Rcmp freind of mine I shot with said, " direct route, no stopping at canadian tire for ammo "

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Doesn't mean nothing. We got a former RCMP officer that shoots with us. He stops for coffee and a bite to eat after we shoot.

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Originally Posted by RobertMcC

Whole firearm system is a joke.

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I'm not laughing. Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by FallisCowboy

I'm not laughing. Did I miss something?

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And they say I don't got a sense of humor.

Correct me if I am wrong here but I just read the section of the Firearms Act on transportation of restricted. NOWHERE does it say ANYTHING about a route of ANY kind. it just says where you can take them.
The reasonably direct is most likely a CFO thing like being a member of a range.
If it was ONLY from home to the range and back with "thou shalt not stop" and "thou shalt not even leave the vehicle to pee" the Canadian RESTRICTED Firearms Safety Course wouldn't have the section on leaving a restricted in an unattended vehicle.
I wouldn't go to the West Edmonton Mall and leave a gun in the car that's for sure BUT if you aren't going to have it out in the parking lot at work, showing all your friends, who is going to know?

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Originally Posted by greywolf67nt

The reasonably direct is most likely a CFO thing like being a member of a range.

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I believe that's in Regulation SOR-98/206 s.4: "A chief firearms officer who issues an authorization to transport shall attach to it the condition that the firearm be transported by a route that, in all the circumstances, is reasonably direct."

and, here's a legal comment

Included in those regulations is a requirement that the route taken by the firearms owner, from home to range and back or from home to gunsmith and back or from home to border crossing and back, be reasonably direct in the circumstances. This is an area of law that has yet to be litigated, so there is no jurisprudence on it. All we have is that requirement on its face.
If Mr. Trudeau were asking me for legal advice, I would tell him that going to the grocery store with your pistol in your trunk is not reasonably direct in the circumstance.
-- Solomon Friedman, Firearms Law Expert, June 10, 2015, https://sencanada.ca/en/Content/Sen/...C/33ev-52219-e

The travel from your home to a shooting range or a shooting competition always has to be the most direct route. You don't have to map it out, but law enforcement will have to do what they do every day, which is exercise common sense in their judgment to map that out. But that's a requirement in law; it always has to be the most direct route.
-- Kathy Thompson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Community Safety & Countering Crime Branch, Public Safety Canada, June 10, 2015, https://sencanada.ca/en/Content/Sen/...C/33ev-52219-e

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Originally Posted by greywolf67nt

If it was ONLY from home to the range and back with "thou shalt not stop" and "thou shalt not even leave the vehicle to pee" the Canadian RESTRICTED Firearms Safety Course wouldn't have the section on leaving a restricted in an unattended vehicle.

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Good point.
Nonetheless, just because one law allows something, doesn't mean another law doesn't disallow it. We have to be in compliance with them all.

Imo, because there are instructions and conditions on leaving a firearm in an unattended vehicle there must have been some anticipation of that.
Time and location of unattendance would become the issue. What would be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Yogi05

Imo, because there are instructions and conditions on leaving a firearm in an unattended vehicle there must have been some anticipation of that.
Time and location of unattendance would become the issue. What would be reasonable.

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And there is that stupid R word that is so often selectively abused by our courts and bureaucrats. Apparently it is "reasonable" for an LEO to leave firearms overnight in their cars, hence the recent thefts from those cars and no charges for the LEO. But if an ordinary gun owners leaves a gun locked in her vehicle, on her driveway, for 2 hours after getting home, that is "unreasonable" and boom charges.

^^ won't disagree.
Also, define reasonable.
A truck driver is used to 1000kms a day, 50kms off route is nothing.

I heard of a case some time ago when someone had some loose shotgun shells in the cupholder of his car and he was charged for that.

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Originally Posted by aharwood

I heard of a case some time ago when someone had some loose shotgun shells in the cupholder of his car and he was charged for that.

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What would they be charged with? Extra points if you can even find the actual file.

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Originally Posted by aharwood

I heard of a case some time ago when someone had some loose shotgun shells in the cupholder of his car and he was charged for that.

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Better not open the trunk of my buddy SUV. Last time I've seen it. A box of 12 ga broke open and they were rolling around in the back for months.

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Originally Posted by ESnel

What would they be charged with? Extra points if you can even find the actual file.

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This might be a case mentioned on the cssa website under "legal" or something like that. Sounds familiar either way

This is not the one I was thinking of but, anyway

https://cssa-cila.org/legals/legal-s...and-transport/

What if you ran out of gas, or your car broke down and had to be towed? Do you leave you pistol in the truck while you go for gas, or bring it with?

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Originally Posted by Roland Deschain

What if you ran out of gas, or your car broke down and had to be towed? Do you leave you pistol in the truck while you go for gas, or bring it with?

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If it's towed, then leave it in the case, and when the taxi shows up bring it with you in the taxi.
If you walk for gas, then leave it in the truck.

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Originally Posted by FirearmsActRegulations

Transportation of Restricted Firearms

11 An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device;

(c) it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation; and

(d) if it is in a container described in paragraph (c) that is in an unattended vehicle,

(i) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the container is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked, and

(ii) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the container, is securely locked and the container is not visible from outside the vehicle.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...html#h-1020008

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Chris Wyat was asked at the range operators meeting in Ontario If I live in the north and work in the south and my gun club is in the east can I take my gun with me to work and go to the range after. His comment was it sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

Nowhere in the law does it say you can't stop at work. The law speaks of the route, not the stops, including the length of time I'd said stop.

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Originally Posted by awndray

Nowhere in the law does it say you can't stop at work. The law speaks of the route, not the stops, including the length of time I'd said stop.

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I shoot every Friday.. Well almost every Friday now. Bunch of us we stop off at the Big stop after shooting. For a bite to eat and a coffee. It's basically at the end of the road leading to the range, and next to the off ramp to get back to the highway. One is a retired RCMP and quite by the law. If it was truly illegal. He would let us know.

Exactly.

I shoot with a number of LEO fellas, both active and retired, traffic enforcement, ERT and white collar crime. They don't advertise their occupation, nor to they abuse their authority. They have a lot to lose by breaking the law.

Just received my RPAL renewal, came with the following transportation conditions. My previous simply stated something along the lines of special conditions may apply. So I guess no special ATT to take for service or to other ranges.

Special conditions

These licence conditions authorize the transport of restricted and/or prohibited firearms registered to the licence holder within their province by a route that, in all circumstances, is reasonably direct for the specific intended purposes.
Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act.
Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from any place a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer is located for verification, registration or disposal in accordance with the Firearms Act or Part III of the Criminal Code.
Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a business that holds a licence authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited or restricted firearms.
Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a gun show.
Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to a port of exit, in order to take them outside Canada and from a port of entry.

that is standard legal mumbo jumbo since I got my PAL.

Yup. Standard legalese that most R/PAL holders throw out when they receding their card. There's a thread or twelve about it.

Did the change to the transport (STATT) in C71 kick in with the royal assent, or is that on hold until it's published in the gazette as well?

I know the verification of PAL is in limbo till then...

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Originally Posted by Run 'n' Gun

Did the change to the transport (STATT) in C71 kick in with the royal assent, or is that on hold until it's published in the gazette as well?

I know the verification of PAL is in limbo till then...

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The LTAATTC (long term automatic authorization to transport conditions) change is on hold until coming-into-force date is announced in the gazette.

As far as I know, the only thing that went live with royal assent was that Quebec could ask for the data. To my knowledge they haven't done that yet, but the Quebec Minister of Public Safety doesn't keep me in the loop. :(

Thanks RB, I thought that was the case.

I have a a couple of toys to take to the LGS, I wasn't sure if i needed a dam STATT for a 20 minutes show 'n' tell...

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Originally Posted by ESnel

What would they be charged with? Extra points if you can even find the actual file.

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Apparently it happens....Ed Burlew recommends you transport your ammo in a locked container, even though there is absolutely no legal requirement to do so, because people have been charged by overzealous officers for transporting unlocked ammo. I'm guessing they invoke careless storage or negligence or something or other, which of course will be defeated in court, if not dropped just before trial. In the meantime, you lose your firearms, your PAL is suspended and your lawyer sends you his bills.

Edit: I see Yogi beat me to it. I gotta learn to read forward before replying. Patience. Meh. :)

This

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These licence conditions authorize the transport of restricted and/or prohibited firearms registered to the licence holder within their province by a route that, in all circumstances, is reasonably direct for the specific intended purposes.

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is an example of how the conservatives added restrictions to transport.

Prior to this you could transport Any firearms from your residence (wife's, children's etc) to the range. Now my wife can not transport any of my restricted firearms to the range on her own and neither may my children and I can't even take my kids firearms to the range to work out an extraction issue. I also can no longer loan a firearms (and supply them with the the registration certificate as required by law) to a friend so they can use it at the range.

Fail.